Mrs. Balabusta

Monday, January 15, 2007

What I think about HPV and Orthodox girls

Mrs. Balabusta will diverge from her humorous self to discuss this serious topic, soon to be a major motion picture - or at least a major motion.

First the facts about HPV and Gardasil: HPV causes genital warts and some forms of cervical dysplasia that can lead to cervical cancer. Most Pap smears that come back abnormal are from changes related to HPV. The Gardasil vaccine provides immunity for some of the more wicked strains of HPV that cause the most serious damage, but there are over 100 strains of HPV, most of them being mostly harmless. HPV is only transmitted via sexual contact.

So why, you rightly ask, should a virgin marrying a virgin need to be vaccinated for a sexually transmitted disease?

My daughter and I examined this very carefully. We were able to do this with a number of solid assumptions, and a few suppositions:
1. She will not have intercourse until after she marries.
2. She will marry someone of this faith, probably with a similar disposition. 3. People sometime misrepresent themselves or their pasts for fear of rejection. (corollary: Everyone is not who or what they appear to be), (or if you watched Babylon 5 ,"No one is who they appear to be")
4. She would not reject a suitor of the faith and similar disposition, out of hand, just because they were not always religious.

Given all these circumstances, or "givens", we could envision a scenario where she might meet and marry a person with an unspectacular past. Or, conversely, she might meet someone who claims to be a virgin, but really isn't. Either way, we decided that it is a lot easier to make a decision about whether or not to get vaccinated when the issue is not attached to a particular person, whereupon it becomes a much thornier issue. For example, it is a lot easier to say that "Sometimes guys lie about their past" than it is to say "Do you think ________ is being truthful about his sexual past?"

Of course, the last issue is the state of affairs today, no pun intended. You all know who I am talking about. Issues that come up that used to be orthodox urban myths but are no longer imaginary. I don't think I really need to be any more explicit than this except to quote my quotable husband who says "If you can imagine it, it's already happened."

So erring on the side of "Better Safe than Sorry", we decided that to pass up this immunization would be equal to sticking your head in the sand. Cervical cancer is not pretty, and if I can protect my children from even an abstract chance I'll do it.

Feel free to disagree with me - but I would ask you to confine your comments to the discussion above. I am not interested in getting into the whole "vaccinations are evil" movement or "preventive medicine leads to promiscuity". No research has borne out either of these claims.

18 Comments:

  • At 10:22 PM, Blogger RaggedyMom said…

    Okay. At first I started having flashbacks to when I had a friend over and my usually cool mother decided it would be a great day for us to go out and buy me my first training bra. Friend in tow. Nooooooo!

    After reading through, I found this to be a frank, sensitive, and wise take on a touchy subject. Kudos to unsqueamish you and your unsqueamish (and mature!) daughter.

     
  • At 12:52 AM, Anonymous Safranit said…

    Good decision making....I"m very impressed with you!!!

     
  • At 9:28 AM, Blogger Kiwi the Geek said…

    Vaccinations are evil! Prevention leads to promiscuity! <sly grin>

    What struck me about all this is the understanding that somebody might lie to the person they're going to marry. About an issue that could be life-threatening. Because they're afraid of being rejected for something they already regret. That's a sad commentary on the character of some people, and on the pressures in dating/matchmaking.

     
  • At 5:58 PM, Blogger Shira Salamone said…

    I'm with both Raggedmom and Safranit on this--good and unsqueamish decision-making, indeed.

    As to Kiwi's comment, let's just say I've learned a few terms via the Jewish blogosphere that I didn't think would be applicable to the Orthodox community, but, in fact, originated therein. Your quotable husband is obviously a lot less naive than I. You are wise, indeed, to protect your daughter against what she might not want to know and/or her future husband might not want her to know.

    Our son will be 24 shortly. At his age, all we can do is pray that we said the right things when he was still young enough to be willing to listen.

     
  • At 8:44 PM, Blogger tuesdaywishes said…

    You've made some good points for getting this vaccine when my girls are old enough to think about getting married. I would want to check into the whole issue of side effects.

    Which reminds me. Have you talked about Tay-Sachs testing? I want my kids to do it through Dor Yesharim, where they test but don't tell you unless you try to get matched with another carrier. I did it AFTER I was engaged, and that was a mistake.

     
  • At 10:03 PM, Blogger Kiwi the Geek said…

    FTR, my comment wasn't meant to be self-righteous. It's quite possible there are similar problems in the Christian community, and I'm just not aware of them. I'm kinda naive at times; because I am who I seem, I expect everybody else to be as well.

     
  • At 12:30 PM, Blogger RaggedyMom said…

    Kiwi - I agree with you - it's not something that I can relate well to, but I don't think it's all that rare.

    I think that what's being discussed here applies more generally to the way young males think and act rather than as a statement about teens under the duress of religious opression.

    As most media portrayals of teenage+ boys will attest, they may misrepresent themselves to the opposite sex for noble(ish) and less-than-noble reasons. That's generally regardless of religion and background.

     
  • At 1:23 PM, Blogger PsychoToddler said…

    There is a certain perception in the orthodox world that a) all kids abstain from sex and b) you can know all you need to know about a potential mate based on his family and background.

    Both are false. While it's true that there is a HECK of a lot less premarital sex in the frum world than the regular world (where I hate to say it's virtually 100%), it's on the rise (no pun intended) and people STILL aren't talking about it which leads to a dangerous situation with it all being in the closet, so to speak. So people AREN'T protecting themselves like they should and going into things with great naivte.

    And I don't care if you're a baal tshuva or a yeshiva bochur with payes behind your ears--if you are a male, you LIE. Period.

     
  • At 12:30 AM, Blogger Kiwi the Geek said…

    Does that include you, PT? <sly grin>

     
  • At 11:07 AM, Blogger PsychoToddler said…

    Don't be ridiculous.

     
  • At 11:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    B"H that you should decide to be so honest with yourself and your daughter.

     
  • At 4:20 PM, Anonymous college girl said…

    Mrs. B, I think you made the right decision. Not that you need to hear that from any of us, but, well, I guess I wanted to put my 2 cents in anyway.

    I wish this vaccine had been around a couple of years ago, when it would have been of some use to me.

    Time to be honest here, I suppose. One, people do lie about their past, for various reasons. Two, some people were not raised religious, and therefore may have done things in the past that at the time they didn't find inappropriate, and have since changed their beliefs and lifestyle, but have a hard time being open about that because they fear judgement by the new circle of friends they are in. So, I said all that to preface my story.

    Growing up not very religious but with good moral structure, I dated in high school but never had any physically intimate relationships. I went off to college and my mother decided I should go on The Pill "just in case" and while I told her it was ridiculous because I wasn't going to be having sex (I didn't believe in pre-marital sex just out of my own moral code, not because of religious constraints), I am grateful that she insisted, or my life might be a whole lot different now. College is a great experience, but there are many dangerous situations out there, as is true of the rest of the "real world." I found out about this the hard way, as I was assaulted at the beginning of the second semester of my freshman year. As a result of something I had no choice in, and no control over, I contracted HPV. Thank G-d that there is treatment for it and that, for the time being, the dysplasia is under control.

    G-d forbid that something horrible like this happen to Fudge, I do not mean to be so pessimistic about it all, but the reality is that anything can happen. I am a smart, alert, worldly young woman who had been told everything to do to "keep safe" and in the end, it was not enough. That's because it wasn't my fault and it wasn't my choice, and I have accepted that and made peace with it, but it still had a lasting effect on me, because now I have to deal with what was "left behind,"so to speak. I know that when I look to get married, I will
    be honest with my partner and tell him of what happened to me (and depending on my current medical status, what is going on). I can only pray that my future husband will have the same consideration for me, and know that I will be understanding no matter the situation.

     
  • At 9:25 AM, Blogger Mrs. Balabusta said…

    I want everyone to read College Girl's post 3 times to make sure you get each message. For the impaired of you out there, I will "reflect" and elucidate.

    1. Things do not always go as planned. I can tell you that no one plans on being assaulted, but it happens just about every weekend. Here's another amazing fact: Most of the girls think it was their own fault that it happened. Having spent 3 years in college health, I can tell you how scary it is out there. The other thing I can tell you is that alcohol is almost always involved, and usually to blame on both sides.

    2. It's easier to prepare for the worst, than catch up afterwards. In as much as is possible, however much protection we can give our kids, we still have to try.

    3. It's hard to tell the truth sometimes. As previously elucidated, guys lie. But girls are not always completely truthful either. I think they are better about it, but you worry about how someone is going to see you knowing your past, and it's hard not to let that influence you, especially when things are going well. This goes both ways.

    Here is what I am going to recommend: If there is a history, a past, a medical condition, something a potential (seriously potential) mate should know about you, write it in a letter NOW. It's easier to put it down when it's not addressed to anyone in particular. Give it to a close trustworthy friend or teacher or your mother, etc., to be handed over at a time you mutually agree on. The letter is sealed, your mother doesn't have to read it.

    Trust me, it's easier to deal with this now, physically and mentally, then when you are looking someone in the eye and trying to find the words. I didn't say this would make it easy, but easier. The truth is it's hard as hell. Everyone has a moment they want to take back, they wish didn't happen. Remember that too.

     
  • At 12:02 PM, Blogger Tzipporah said…

    more kudos, but as my husband (Bad Cohen) pointed out on reading about this new vaccine yesterday,

    "Why is nobody talking about vaccinating the BOYS? Aren't they the vectors?"

    Under the heading of killing two birds with one stone, I believe...

     
  • At 8:26 PM, Blogger Mrs. Balabusta said…

    The governor of Texas just signed a law stating all girls in Texas must be vaccinated by 6th grade, with a conscientious objector waiver.

    This man also receives money from Merck, per news reports. This is unfortunate.

    My prediction is that this will not stand up in court, (everything goes to court nowadays).

    Let's watch what happens.

     
  • At 8:33 AM, Blogger Eliezer said…

    Vaccination decisions are supposed to be done whith the whole population in mind.
    That is why IMHO vaccinating all the boys may not be such a bad idea.

     
  • At 1:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    A bit late to respond to this post so I don't know if anyone will see this....

    I'm usually very good at seeing two sides to the issues, but in this case I can't imagine why everyone doesn't vaccinate their daughters against HPV. I suspect that my girls are some of the very few at their frummy (knee socks mandatory) school to have had the HPV vaccine.

    By the way, I stumbled across your blog by way of a recent discovery of some very cool music on youtube (which I suspect my kids' school wouldn't approve of either).

     
  • At 10:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I think your analysis on this whole vaccination thing is great.........no matter orthodox or not.......they should all take the shot........I am orthodox myself and wish that I had taken the shot before it was to late.

     

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